synabetic: "Liefeld" - It could be a comedy, yeah?

Steveill the Weevill (

synabetic) wrote,
@ 2006-12-28 18:34:00

Current music:	Klinik - "Quiet in the Room (Covenant mix)"
Entry tags:	comics, polls

"Liefeld" - It could be a comedy, yeah?
I'd like to kick this post off with that I mean nothing against Mr. Liefeld personally here. I do loathe his art, however, and I seriously wonder how it is that he has so many fans! Is anyone reading a fan? If so, speak up and defend Rob Liefeld, dammit. I promise to be nice. :)

(And please excuse the errs... it's been a busy day. But, hey, it's kinda fitting when you think about it.... what?)

Poll #896858 Rob Liefeld
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All

Please, just humour me. Rob Liefeld and his art... He has fans, right? He keeps getting work? What do you think of Mr. Liefeld? Please select that which best applies.

View Answers

Rob Liefeld is a treasure as far as comic books are concerned. He's a master of his craft,
0 (0.0%)

I'm not really into him, per se, but I do like his art.
0 (0.0%)

Honestly, I couldn't care one way or another. He's just another artist. Dunno what the hub0ub is about.
3 (7.9%)

Leifeld? He's still around? His work never really did it for me.
2 (5.3%)

I think Rob Liefeld is overrated. His work is either substandard or okay at best.
4 (10.5%)

How does Liefeld keep getting work?! I mean, just LOOK at what he did to Cap!
3 (7.9%)

Rob Liefeld is the scourge of all things good. Flowers wilt and children die with weeping sores when in his presence. Just thinking about him caused me to tear my face off piece by piece with fish hooks.
14 (36.8%)

Who?
12 (31.6%)

(Post a new comment)

	wire_mother 2006-12-29 03:12 am UTC (link)
	eh, his stuff looks like standard Image-style art. no big deal. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 03:16 am UTC (link)
	Um, you haven't read any Image titles for like 8-10 years, have you. ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)

synabetic
2006-12-29 03:25 am UTC (link)

Ooo... That sounds snarkier than I intended.

What I mean is, Image is just a collection of smaller publishers and numerous titles now. Art varies wildly depending on creative team. There's no such thing as "Image-styled" art anymore (was there ever?).

Also, none of the bigger publishers have a particular art style. At least, as far as I'm seeing. It depends on which artist(s) are doing the art.

:)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

wire_mother
2006-12-29 03:45 am UTC (link)

well, it has been something like 4 years since i've read them widely, but last i looked many of the Image artists worked in styles very similar to each other even though they were technically independent creative teams. enough of them, in fact, that it was usually easy to tell that a book was from Image instead of some other publisher. there were exceptions, of course, but books like Witchblade, The Darkness, Gen¹³, Darkchylde, Avengelyne, et multiple cetera were all completely interchangeable.

oh, and look, Avengelyne was a Liefeld creation.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 03:52 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, nowadays it's impossible to tell. Battle Pope, Fear Agent, Walking Dead, Deadworld, Sea of Red... and so on and so forth etc. Also, don't forget that Image is mostly a collection of publishers now. Really, Darkness and Withcblade are Top Cow... Which, btw (and imo), look nothing like Liefeld's art, aside from the fact that it's, well, art. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

wire_mother
2006-12-29 04:08 am UTC (link)

fair enough (though isn't Top Cow an Image imprint? i thought it was).

my point, though, is that Liefeld's art is pretty much generic, with nothing special to recommend it, but it doesn't make me run screaming for the hills. on the other hand, i wouldn't pick up a book with a Liefeld cover (unless there were something else to recommend it), so take that for what it's worth.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

synabetic
2006-12-29 04:23 am UTC (link)

Gotcha. No worries! You make a fair point. :)

And yeah, Top Cow is an imprint along with a few others... Image does put out it's own titles too... But yeah, whenever I do a write-up or review on these things I make sure to note the publisher (outside of Image). It's more of a co-publisher than imprint, really (though, they may be technically "imprints"... don't quote me... hehe).

:)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	winneganfake 2006-12-29 04:29 am UTC (link)
	I feel the need to clarify, mostly because the option I picked isn't quite right. Here's how it should read: "What lunatic, batshit-crazed hopped-up-on-crack editor is he in bed with to pass of his disproportionate caricatures as art?" (Reply to this) (Thread)

	wire_mother 2006-12-29 04:33 am UTC (link)
	aw, that's not a fair criticism. one could easily say the same about Bill Sienkiewicz, but that doesn't make his art bad. ;) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	dragon_smoke 2006-12-29 06:39 am UTC (link)
	Yes. Yes, it does. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	wire_mother 2006-12-29 11:44 pm UTC (link)
	eh, i liked Sienkiewicz. among other things, he stretched the medium. additionally, his expressive style allowed for communicating inner process more visually than had been possible otherwise (though, admittedly, it did lack a certain subtlety). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	gkr 2006-12-29 02:05 pm UTC (link)
	Now there's a name I actually remember from my comic book reading days. All these 90s folks like Liefeld are after my time. (Reply to this) (Parent)

marc17
2006-12-31 08:28 pm UTC (link)

Well, getting work as a comic artist is not dependant on being a good artist. Most importantly, it's being able to get the work done. If you can meet a schedule or pick up the work of artists who can't, then you'll do fine as a comic artist even if you are in the bottom half talentwise.

Not sure if Rob falls into the category (of meeting schedules that is) but he does have name recognition for whatever reason.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	chronivore 2006-12-29 05:50 am UTC (link)
	HATE (Reply to this) (Thread)

	dragon_smoke 2006-12-29 06:39 am UTC (link)
	LOVE!!! The icon that is. ;-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 09:54 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, that is a rad icon. Love for the icon! :D (Reply to this) (Parent)

templar46_2
2006-12-29 09:47 am UTC (link)

i don't burn with seething hate... i don't really like his artwork, but at least he draws it himself and/or doesn't use stock facial expressions repeatedly over several different comics (or even across several different comic companies)... *cough* GREG LAND *cough*

Liefeld's proportions are goofy, and i always disliked how his pencils look like they're unfinished, rough and uneven... and his noses make everyone look like michael jackson... but i've sure seen worse.

He was at the last EC3... i didn't talk to him, but i hear he's a really nice guy. I imagine that counts for a LOT in the industry.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

synabetic
2006-12-29 09:53 am UTC (link)

Yeah, I've seen much worse than Liefeld. Like the art in Grunts. Ghastly! I almost died from the badness. It was VERY bad. Like finding out mom is a genestealer kinda bad.

I've heard Rob is nice, too. I've also heard some other unkind things, but hey, there's stuff about everyone. Of course, I'd love to interview Liefeld sometime. You know, a kind of friendly yet semi-tough interview ("Why do you think so many people hate your guts?" etc).

His Cap, though. Unforgivable. Yeesh. I actually teared up when I fist saw it. Poor Cap! :(

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	templar46_2 2006-12-29 09:56 am UTC (link)
	did you see the thread he started on newsarama? (i think that's where it was)... he actually posted, himself, a "do you tear up/destroy those Liefeld comics you hate so much?" or something along those lines (paraphrasing). it was... kindof insane. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 10:00 am UTC (link)
	Nah, I didn't see it. I normally avoid Newsarama's forums. Well, I used to. Now I lurk... hehe (because I kinda have to). I did read the attempt at bringing our reviewer Kelvin Green down, though. Great thread. Kelvin likes Dan Abnett, so he's okay in my book. :D (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	templar46_2 2006-12-29 10:03 am UTC (link)
	er... that was to say it was so audacious and ballsy that it made the news elsewhere in comic-book-geek-land too. i'm pretty sure i got linked there from elsewhere. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 10:06 am UTC (link)
	Probably... I must've missed it somehow. When did this occur, anyway? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	templar46_2 2006-12-29 10:08 am UTC (link)
	i think just before Onslaught Reborn launched. maybe it wasn't that long ago... i'll see if i can find it. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	templar46_2 2006-12-29 10:12 am UTC (link)
	found it... that's right, it wasn't tear-up or whatever... he asked if people yell at Liefeld comics in real life too. lol (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 10:16 am UTC (link)
	Nice! Deadpool is one of my fave characters ever... So, I guess I can't -completely- hate Mr. Mr. Liefeld's work. :D It's kinda like a more mellow version about how I feel about Alpha Flight and a certain someone... which should prove interesting in the near future. (Reply to this) (Parent)

synabetic
2006-12-29 10:21 am UTC (link)

Someone said the following: "I don't think I've ever said anything about Rob Liefeld personally since I never met the man (but would gladly buy him a pint if I did and he turned out to be a fun guy). I just think the art sucks something fierce. That's all.

I mean, it's okay, I'm a horrible dancer and don't care when people tell me it."

And that pretty much sums up how I feel, too. And yeah, I can't dance either.
:D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	templar46_2 2006-12-29 10:07 am UTC (link)
	also; this is about Onslaught Reborn isn't it? (DAMN, marvel has removed the "i'm bringin' onslaught back" video from YouTube...) (Reply to this) (Thread)

synabetic
2006-12-29 10:13 am UTC (link)

Actually, Onslught Reborn being discussed and torn apart in the SBC forums is what made me think of Liefeld. I haven't read it yet, so I have no opinion for bad or good. It -did- make me think of Liefeld, though. And I remember his Captain America. I really think I teared up (ie cried) when I saw it.

Of course, all this hubbub about Onslught Reborn makes me want to get an issue to check it out...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

templar46_2
2006-12-29 10:17 am UTC (link)

yeah, i've picked up one and two (haven't read two yet, since it was just out today) more out of morbid curiosity than anything else.

i honestly can't decide what i think... i really didn't like Heroes Reborn back in the day, but it was kindof a big deal at the time, and a significant part of my comic-collecting history (i'd fallen out, and the idea brought me back... and then i fell out again because it was pretty terrible)... and i wanted to see how it fit in with the House of M/"no more mutants" thing.

masochistic nostalgia? i dunno...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 10:23 am UTC (link)
	Be careful when you tread this dangerous path, Templar-San. Hehehe... Well, hey, Loeb's writing it... Can't be THAT bad, yeah? Though, from reviews I hear it's not Loeb's best. I'll have to see for myself. (Reply to this) (Parent)

synabetic
2006-12-29 11:05 am UTC (link)

So I came across this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFqXs6vYvO8

You know, it almost makes me feel bad that I bag on him over his Cap, because according to what he says, Rob really likes drawing him.

Now, if I ever see him a con, I have to get him to sketch Deadpool pointing at Cap and saying "IN YOUR FACE, BACON-BOY!". I'd probably frame it and hang it up near my desk here.
:D

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	not_eurotic 2006-12-29 03:55 pm UTC (link)
	The man, from what I remember, has less sense of fucking anatomy than a 7 year old. I did enjoy his first stuff, before the world started sucking his dick. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	not_eurotic 2006-12-29 03:56 pm UTC (link)
	not that THAT was good, mind you-- I just wasn't hearing about his ridiculous EGO yet. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

synabetic
2006-12-30 02:43 am UTC (link)

Yeah, the supposed EGO is legendary. I wonder if it's still like that? Keep in mind that many people (as I'm sure you know) mistake an artist's confidence (whichever the medium) as "OMG ego!". Though, I'm quite certain his ego punch through the roof in the early 90s.
(not that I'm excusing him but who's wouldn't? Dude became the first "rock star" of comics...)

Anyhow, yeah, I remember falling in love with Deadpool right away, and that's why I would read any of Rob's stuff (hey, his Deadpool has always been pretty good, no?). But man, his art... it seemed to get worse. Then I saw his Cap.
*cries*

(Reply to this) (Parent)

lothos
2006-12-29 06:43 pm UTC (link)

Not a fan of his art, but I understand how he gets work. His art is like a polished version of every 7 to 16 year old's work and he includes everything that's "kewl." Yes his proportions are way off. Sure he's not big on backgrounds. Noted all his characters have the same gritted teeth expression. Ditto no real person's veins pop out even at rest. But he's playing to his target audience and they love him for it.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-29 07:42 pm UTC (link)
	Yeah, I can see that. It's like adolescent wish-fulfillment or something. Not that there's anything wrong with that... I just don't like his style. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	lothos 2006-12-30 06:55 am UTC (link)
	Exactly! But yeah, I wasn't much of a fan of his style, though it wasn't too bad to me when he was doing X-Force. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-30 09:36 am UTC (link)
	Me either, no that I think about it. Was it because we were younger? (Reply to this) (Parent)

	cymon 2006-12-29 08:26 pm UTC (link)
	Liefeld marketed the action figure of Youngblood's archer character, Shaft, as "Rob Liefeld's Shaft: 7 Inches, fully poseable" o.O (Reply to this) (Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-30 02:39 am UTC (link)
	Hahahah... I always loved that one. :P (Reply to this) (Parent)

jevawtmok
2006-12-30 04:18 am UTC (link)

It's not the horrible lack of proportions, overly hollowed cheek bones, scrunched noses or skewed proportions that make me hate Liefield - I suffer from some if not all of these problems when I draw as well (althogh I am not a published comic artist, so that's quite different, IMO!) - that actually garners some sympathy from me.

What really bugs me is the comparisons of him outright copying other published artists. I recall side by side shots of Liefield's art with older comic art, and the plagurism was astonishing. I mean props for understanding your sketches aren't pulling it off, and using a reference - but MAKE IT A REFERENCE and produce your own artwork, don't copy it!

I had a pencil sketch of The Crow in one of my sketch books, and it got to the point where I didn't want to show that book to people - I would envariably get compliments on it, and I would have to explain that I copied it straight from the comic as a study, it wasn't really original work.

I can't imagine trying to pass off another person's work like that.

Meh.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	synabetic 2006-12-31 09:54 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, I've noticed the alleged copying, as well... At first I thought it was merely coincidence, as many people will hang on to whatever shred of "fact" to bash on someone they simply dislike. Then, as I saw more and more examples... well, maybe I can ask him about it one day. :) (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	jevawtmok 2007-01-01 04:34 am UTC (link)
	http://adlo.dreamers.com/estudios/comparativas.htm (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	synabetic 2007-01-04 04:18 am UTC (link)
	Vielen dank! And I have good news. :D (Reply to this) (Parent)

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